What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Fellow GIM bugs,

The gold portion of my PM stash consists only of gold bullion (with the one exception of the 2009 UHR Double Eagle). I am contemplating purchasing some pre-1933 gold. I am well aware that I would not be buying it strictly for the gold bullion value, but more for the numismatic allure. I want to add some pizzazz to my collection and I figured a gold piece from the late 1800's would serve that purpose. I have always been fascinated by old coins. AMPEX has some nice St. Gaudens gold pieces and some nice looking Liberty Head Double Eagles. Here are my questions:

1. A lot of these coins in the condition that I would be buying (almost uncirculated) are in the price range of $1,200 - $1,300. That is a pretty steep premium compared to what everyday bullion is going for. Do you think it's worth it?

2. Which coin do you think is "better"? The Liberty Head Double Eagle or the St. Gaudens? I already have the 2009 UHR, so, I am kind of leaning towards the Liberty Head just because it would be something different.

3. Should I just stick with modern bullion and hope that the premiums on the older pieces come down?

As always, I appreciate all of the opinions that come my way. Thanks guys.

GG

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Stick with modern stuff. Old stuff isn't even a full ounce of gold.
But that being said I do own a 1910-s in pcgs ms63 condition because of HistoryStudent preaching a few years ago. I paid $1000 for it from gainesvillecoins. :RockOn:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I like old stuff that has a historical significance, like, The California Gold Rush, The Civil War, The Stock Market Crash (1929 not 2009) etc. Usually there is not a gold coin associated with the event but collecting a good quality example (of a coin from that time) is fun. But that's just me.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

GG the reverse of the Liberty is really awesome the pics on Apmex don't do justice. If you are buying these for numismatic potential you should get the highest MS grade you can afford. Almost uncirculated is basically over priced bullion. These are coins that some shady dealers will try to get you to buy claiming that they are exempt from confiscation. They are just ripping people off. I have a Liberty in 64 and it's price has gone up $800 in past year. Would I pay that price for it now? No, I would not. When you buy numismatic coins you are speculating that the price will rise. Generally you must hold the coin 3-4 or more years to realize a significant gain. Sometimes the market is hot and sometimes it's not. Also, there may still be a large amount of mint state coins in hoards around the globe that could potentially depress the value of the coins you are holding. This information I read about before purchasing the Liberty. You may want to do a little info search, Just a thought....Hope this helps:coolbeer:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I think the reverse of the Liberty Head is the most beautiful coin in history. I'm in the minority though, because the St. Gaudens is generally regarded as more aesthetically pleasing.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

So, I should actually get a graded coin and not an "almost uncirculated" one? Is that the consensus when buying pre-1933 gold? I can't even imagine how much something graded will cost. The "almost uncirculated" Double Liberties and St. Gaudens are in the range of $1,100 and $1,300. Eeeek.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

MS63 to MS65

First buys should BE Saints - IMVHO - spend 20 hours in study - do a search on ST and SAINTS on GIM to start.

Library - Coin Collecting sites - a good few USED Amazon books on NUMIS. coins.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Hi HS!! The Saints are nice too but may be a little anti-climatic for one who already owns a MS 70 UHR first strike like GG :biggrin:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Thanks HS.

What's a fair price for a Liberty Head Double Eagle in MS63? APMEX has them for roughly $2,000, which seems pretty steep.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Haha, that's what I was thinking diversified. I am leaning more towards the Liberty Head Double Eagle since I do not already own one.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I will say that the Liberty and UHR coin are my keepers....If that helps:coolbeer:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Definitely helps.

If you don't mind me asking, what year is your Liberty?

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

So, is the general consensus that the "Almost Uncirculated" Pre-1933 gold coins aren't worth buying? One should instead purchase something slabbed?

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I'd have to dig it up to tell you that one...It's probably nothing special though. If I find time I will check it. K?

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I just wasn't sure if the year played a major role or not in determining the value.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

There are key dates but it was a stretch just to get the Liberty in PCGS
MS64. I am sure I would not have parted with the money for a key date since I was busy buying other preps at the time and had stretched things a little thin at one point. Hey check out other dealers before you make the purchase that is something I remembered doing when I was searching for mine. I was amazed to find great differences in the premiums for the same coins. Check out CNI, Gainsville, USA gold and tell me what you think!:ok:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

History Student - Almost always gives excellent advice! That being said, if nothing else follow his advice first, then all our other experienced comments... History, are you a retired Dealer???

Saints in MS-63 to MS-65 (Especially MS65)! These are the money makers... However, they are a bit steep for me right now. Yet for most, that would be relative to where you think Gold may be going... But, for example, if MS-65 Saints ever come back down to the $1,000 a PCGS slab area... I'm all over as many as I can buy. These are the Puppies that make you 300 to 500 smacks a coin - easily & over and over too, just gotta time them correctly! But, at this higher level, I'm out & a lot of people I know who play the St. Game are out too... You need to think and think hard.

Until that day comes: Modern Proofs, Modern W's, and use up your household limit of ten UHR's (Even though I bad mouthed them once or twice... lol).

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

You and a lot of other people but I doubt if anyone would sell unless they were forced to liquidate:wink:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

you may be interested in reading this article....

http://www.usagold.com/publications/...cation2006.pdf

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Yes, a good article but could you trust the government not to change the rules?:bawling:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

AWESOME collection. Those are some real beauties you've got there! :coolbeer:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

No I just studied what happened in PAST - the dealers steer the NEW ONES coming into gold when it HITS $1500 in the MS63 to MS65s.

That's what I plan to sell into - that's all - from $1500 to $5000 - slowly.

I should say trade - because then I'll be L@@KING for something way undervalued.

Right now for the money supply gold and silver are a steal. That said, I'd be lL@@KING to diversify into all forms of gold silver:

NUMISMATICS
slabbed Saints & Liberties in PCGS NGC and maybe?... ANACS, ICG (which I buy a lot of really old pre-1300 a.d. numis in for fun)

Coins
AGE
Maples
Krugs
Nuggets
Pesos (I live in So. Cal.)
Sovereigns
Coronas
Francs

ASE
Junk Rounds
$1000 bags USA
Silver dollars

BULLION Bars
Silver 100 oz
Silver 10 oz
Silver 5 oz.

And any other forms of the above to protect yourself
Remember Jastram's Books "Golden constant" "Silver the restless metal;" I believe if you follow the historical 500 years prior in England & America you'll be better off than in some paper promises NO mater what they are or should I say WERE.

Coulda Woulda Shoulda. Should never be your Three words below the dash.

The dash, you ask?

Well put your year of birth here ....; and your expected year of death here ....;

OKAY?

Now the dash is the thing in between those on the OLE GRAVESTONE!

:15_1_70v::36_1_25:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I would wait for an ebay coupon to come in the mail and then locate a reasonably priced specimen on their website. That way you'll save big bucks off of what you would pay from a local dealer or Apmex.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

All good advice.

My 2 cents:

If you can find pre-33 stuff at close to spot, grab it with both hands. Premiums have gone way up, but you used to be able to buy XF Liberties for not much more than a new gold eagle. I'd rather have a 100+ year old coin any time.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Makes sense. After browsing APMEX and Gainesville Coins, it seems that all of the Pre-1933 gold in any decent condition is going for HUGE. I mean, I saw some ungraded "almost uncirculated" Liberty Head Double Eagles for $1,300.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I have a couple pre 33 pieces, but I got them mostly for just a bit above scrap gold price. I like the history. You can have the history without the extreme price if you are willing to take pieces that are not perfect. I got one coin that is really nice except for it was set in a necklace so it has four nicks on the outside. from the front and the back, you cannot tell.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Unless you are going to buy the better higher graded coins why not just buy a scruffy old gold coin at a local dealer to keep around to look at. The lower graded coins have little numis value if any at all. I managed to buy a nice stash of some 10 and 20 Dollar Libs from a local guy who was going out of business 5-6 years ago so I got a nice deal. The old coins are nice and have the kick of being a piece of history. Don't get screwed though.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Gordon check this site out.


http://www.pcgs.com/POP/

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Thanks for the link. I am not a member, though. Thus, I cannot access the population reports.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I should have pictures of several of the pre 33 coins I will have tomorrow.

So keep it in mind if any of you are interested. They will be at competitive prices.

The full tally will come tomorrow as well. I think it is about 15+ $2.5 Indian Heads and still the one 10 dollar liberty.

Now I will go as far as to say, if you see a coin, YOU may want to have graded, send me a PM and we can work something out.

If I feel some of them are worth "possible" grading I may send them. Obviously if sold after grading the price will be higher.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I agree with this.

I can appreciate the history and beauty of a pre-1933 gold coin just as well if it's ungraded, especially if I can buy two for the price of one slabbed coin.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Is this it?


:biggrin:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Next to my Gold Buffalo's , the number 2 best earner in my gold/silver hoard is my Gold Saint Gaudens. They have done really well over the last several years.

I like to buy slabbed(ngc,pcgs) saints, in MS-63 or better.

The liberty heads are very nice, but I don't think they have as big of a collector base, so the prices probably won't be as high.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

:4_1_72: Wise as*.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I already have the 2009 UHR, so, I was kinda thinking about getting the Liberty Head Double Eagle. Perhaps I will look into the older Saints and see what the prices are like. With that being said, I was looking for something from the 19th century. So, that rules out the Saints.

I'll figure it all out. I just can't believe how expensive these coins are even non-graded ones. :confused_ma:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Are you sure about that? APMEX has MS-64 Liberty Heads at $2,845:

https://www.apmex.com/Product/10292/...CGS_ONLY_.aspx

and has MS-64 St. Gaudens at $1,665:

https://www.apmex.com/Product/7224/2...PCGS_ONLY.aspx


That is a BIG difference in pricing for the same grade.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Gordon I wouldn't buy numis from APMEX. The price is all about how many are left.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Gordon lhslancers tried to give you the PCGS POPULATION report which is doubled by NGC's report.

The Liberties in MS63 are similar in number to MS65 in Saints (someWhat)

There are a lot fewer of them - more people collect the Saints - the MOST BEAUTIFUL you-know-what!

It's all about numbers doing that 20 hour study will make you a fountain of Knowledge. Only you care enough about your money to figure out the

NUANCES! The fellow posting ws correct - he did his 120 hOURS - I'll bet ya - cause he wants to make MORE bang for his failing BUCKS!

Got to go...

study & be smart...............


:15_1_70v:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Careful you will become addicted to pre 1933 and leave bullion behind.

I can buy bullion under or at spot but love the pre-33 so much I go through the effort of shipping them internationally.

Also if you do some re-search you will find almost no asset class that performs like these!

I just ordered a 1799 $10 eagle and it looks amazing! One of the first coins ever minted by the US......so much history not to mention the price performance.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

The pre 33 saints and 2009 UHR are totally different.....you will see what I mean when you get a ms65 saint in your hands.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

When it comes to pre-1933 gold, I've always thought the $5 indians were the best looking, followed by the liberty's, and then the saints.

http://www.lakestatecoin.com/images/5Indian_000.jpg

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

come on the best looking by far has to be the early gold. something special about having a coin date starting with 17XX.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I really like those and wish they had made them in $10 & $20 I guess they weren't real popular. I read somewhere that people didn't like them because they thought that the coins would carry lots of bacteria because of the design. Couldn't get worse than filthy fiat!!!!!!!!!!!!:puke:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I don't know where you are but take a look at your local coin shops.:wink:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I'm not going to disagree with you there. I will have to take a trip to my local shop to see how their prices on pre-1933 gold stack up against APMEX, Gainesville, et al. Judging by what APMEX is asking for their slabbed (and non-slabbed) pre-1933, it might be a little too rich for my blood.

I'll tell you one thing; I am not about to spend $1,300 for a non-slabbed "almost uncirculated" Double Liberty from APMEX. :36_1_30:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

gekko you think the ones on apmex are expensive check out the early gold.....5 figures.....but 20% return per ann for the last 10 years is pretty tempting.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Good idea!!! Shoot me a PM when you get whatever it is you decide to buy in case I miss your post. I expect to see a pic:ok:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

And so it begins...LOL.

It starts with a single purchase.

Then you start trading bullion for numis.... and the next thing you know you'll wake up one day and realize you have a safe stuffed full of numi gold and silver.

A fine addiction.
Enjoy.

ST

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Where can one find gold coins from the 18th century for sale?

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Haha, we'll see what plays out. I just need to get started first! I think I have settled on getting an MS-63 or MS-64 Liberty Double Eagle. Now, if only I could find one for a decent price...

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

You, sir, are a HIGH roller. Compare a deal on a Saint in MS64 (check EBAY for a quickie) on a LIBERTY MS64.

http://www.golddealer.com/betterdate.asp

try an 1889 S Liberty ($19,000 retail) against a 1926 Saint ($2015 retail) for example.


But, GG, :23_1_22: I just picked two KEY dates that should scoot! :36_3_12:

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I don't want to repost - But the coins are in very promising.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...3&postcount=30

Se my other post if you like

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

Those are awesome coins, Agro, no doubt. However, I am looking for 1 ouncers.

Re: What's the Scoop on Pre-1933 Gold?
 

I may let some of these go for close to spot and although I love Apmex, BELOW, their prices.

Just lettin' ya know.